Canon adds 24p to the 5D Mark II and I Blame You
Monday, March 1, 2010 at 7:33PM 
Readers of ProLost, pat yourself on the back.
In the 18 months since Canon announced the Canon 5D Mark II, you’ve written, you’ve called, you’ve left comments here and on Vincent Laforet’s blog. You politely but firmly harrassed Canon personel at trade shows. Perhaps most significantly, you put your money where your mouth is and bought 7Ds, showing Canon that 24p is even better than Bokake.
It delights me to no end to read these words in a Canon press release:
Developed following feedback from photographers and cinematographers, Firmware 2.0.3 further enhances the EOS 5D Mark II’s excellent video performance. The addition of new frame rates expands the camera’s video potential, providing filmmakers with the ability to shoot 1080p Full HD footage at 24fps (actual 23.976fps)—the optimum frame rate for cinematic video. 25fps support at both 1920x1080 and 640x480 resolutions will allow users to film at the frame rate required for the PAL broadcast standard, while the new firmware will also change the 30fps option to the NTSC video standard of 29.97fps.
I underlined a couple bits in there. Do they sound familiar? The wording is almost directly lifted from ProLost posts and my other communications with Canon.
Does it seem like I’m patting myself on the back? Well I am. But you should too. I know that, at best, I played maybe a tiny role in this. But this is a very cool thing that has happened here—we spoke, and Canon listened.
Read the full press release at dpreview.com.
Take a trip down memory lane and view all ProLost posts tagged Canon 5D Mark II.
And heck, buy a 5D Mark II from Amazon and support this site. I love mine, and I’m about to love it even more.
Stu
Looking back at the 24p for 5D campaign waged here on ProLost, something I never felt I needed to do was explain why 24p was so important, beyond simple technical compatibility. If you’re interested in an artistic discussion of the role 24 progressive frames per second plays in the look and feel of movies, check out part two of my interview by Rick Young of MacVideo. Rick asks one question—“why 24p”—and I talk for about ten minutes. Oops.
Part one of the interview is here.
Reader Comments (41)
And what about 60fps in lower res?
Stu, I'm new to your blog. Wish to say "Thank you" for it. So. Thank you!
We bought, We shot, We conquered.
How about the 7D now? Audio and histogram are a must also... No reason why we can't have that!
>And what about 60fps in lower res?
Unless you want your 5D to go down in flames, it better not be there. The 5D was not designed for 60p as the 7D/1D/T2i were, later in the game. The fact that it's at a lower res does not help the fact that the shutter has to move 60 times a second -- something that wasn't designed to do in that specific [older] model. :-)
I also own a 5D MkII, so the current changes are very welcome. I can't ask for even more features from Canon at this point, 18 months after release.
BTW, something that I personally found very interesting. The *new* Canon A-series digital cameras, the ones announced just 15 days ago, now ALSO do 29.97 fps, instead of 30.00. These are cams with VGA video that cost $110 to $200, and until recently only did 30.00 fps. So it seems that we see a complete change of mentality everywhere at Canon towards "better, more sane" video features across their whole range of digicams. I expect their future cheap HD digicams to also do 29.97 (if not also 25 and 23.976 fps additionally, but without manual controls apart exposure compensation & locking). One thing is for sure: fun times ahead, from the top of the cam market, to the bottom!
ok.. now on to the 500D! you got my back, right 5tu?
Good for Canon! And good for 5DmII owners! I hope Canon does us 7D owners a solid and gives us the live histogram and audio features as well. Then at least we have something more (on the video side) for that $800 we paid over the T2i. C'mooooon Canon!
Finally! Now they've fixed that they can release the 5D mk3 with better low light performance and less rolling shutter.
Thanks Canon. Unlike my 7D, my full frame sensor 5DMKII is now a good still camera and will do 24p video. Now I can go back to using my 24MM 1.4 lens and have it be a 24MM 1.4 lens.
I would rather you sell me a Camcorder with a 35MM 2.4MP CMOS sensor and global shutter, add an EF lens mount and give me fast prime lenses with optical Image Stabilization. By fast I mean 1.2 and 1.4. You build it I will buy it.
The only reason I use a zoom lens for video on my 5DMKII is for the Image Stabilization. So for now I have to buy Canon zoom lenses that at 2.8 are still way too slow for my needs.
This is something everyone should think about before buying a DSLR Camera with a cropped sensor to shoot video:
We all started out adding a 35MM adapter to our DVX-100's so we could have that shallow depth of field film look. But by doing so we lost a lot of functions that we were using on the camcorders.
We lost image stabilization, built in ND filters, zoom and auto focus.
So I did not complain much when the 5DMKII also had none of these functions.
But it should be able to have most of them.
The 7D is cheaper than the 5DMKII but after you buy wider angle lenses to compensate for the 1.6 crop the savings is lost unless you also needed that range for the 5DMKII. Some of those EFS-APS-C zoom lenses will not work on the 5DMKII and future full frame Canon DSLR cameras.
Be sure to consider your lens investment before choosing a DSLR body.
/rant.
-DR.
so, what's next ... demand for full HD out of hdmi ? ... why stop now :P
congratulations everyone
shameful that they delayed this to coincide with the end of the olympics, but anyway, well done, canon
now, manual exposure controls on my father's 500D/T1i should be a piece of cake...
Will this update also include manual controls?
Thanks Stu. new follower of your blog and twitter, also fxphd post grad. I got a 7D from seeing your work and reviews with these cameras. with the 5D update, it looks like it's the better choice for filmmakers now.
This may sound like a "duh" question but does anyone know if the new 24p is native like my HVX200 camera had, or is this 24p with pulldown (30fps)? I was just curious.
I heard them say what at the Supermeet, now we have the when. Great news for us in post, the 30fps VS FCP has been a nightmare. Five starts for a company that actually listened AND acted on user feedback.
Indeed, patting backs is good but we need zebras and live histogram on the 7D now as well as live HDMI out.
I think they saw the HItler video on youtube! You just can't be more scared of, if Hitler is angry about his purchase! :P
Hi Stew, what is that steadicam rig you are using in the photo? Is it the manfrotto? Can you do a post on handheld steadicam setups sometime?
thanks!
Raelic, all of the other Canon cameras shoot native 24 fps Quicktime files, so it's reasonable to assume that the 5D will as well.
Congrats everyone!!
Stu, of course you should pat yourself on the back:)) you support and help establish this community.. I can't be happier to shoot full frame 24p on 5d.. thank you Stu, Canon and people who made this update possible..
Jewsh, it's the Steadicam Merlin. Don't be thrown by the fact that it's backwards!
Okay, I'm going there! This whole 24p thing is ridiculous. If you're going to shoot it, print it, show it in a movie theatre, fine, that makes sense, but how many of us are doing that? So tell me, if the majority of what's being shot is pretty much displayed on the web, why 24p? I've looked at tons of videos online that were shot @ 24p and I just don't see this cinematic difference between that anything shot @29.97 The Canon update is a good one from the stand point they changed 30p to 29.97 for double system sound sync, the 24p...hmmmm, maybe it's just me!
Steve,
Some sites from my understanding convert 30p footage to 24p on the web which would defintely explain why you do not see a difference in some cases. There is a bit of a hollow / Surreal look to something when properly filmed on a 24 fps video/film that some desire. It is merely just a matter taste, and preference though.
- Matt aka Raelic
It's not just you Steve - I've been perfectly happy shooting 30p since I got the 5D. Stu makes a great argument for 24p in the MacVideo interview, but it's an argument for 24p vs. 60i, not 24p vs. 30p. I'd bet money that if the same Sundance experiment he referenced was performed with 30p vs. 60i you'd get the exact same reaction from the audience. 60i is the video look, 24p is the film look, and 30p is much closer to the latter than the former - close enough that general audience members don't really notice the difference. The number one comment I get from subjects when they see themselves on screen (shot with the 5D) is 'it looks like I'm in a movie'! Never got that reaction shooting 24p on the XHA1, which tells me it's not the frame rate they're reacting to.
That said, when the update comes out I'll switch back to 24p - in my experience it compresses better for online delivery, and it's less work if you've got rotoscoping to do, and it's easier to convert to PAL if necessary. Plus, assuming they maintain the current data rate, it should result in less compression in your source files - a more significant gain than post compression because the camera doesn't have the luxury of 2-pass encoding, b-frames, etc.
This is GREAT news!! Now if they would only supply an exact date. I am trying to move some projects around until after the update comes out!!
Excellent post Evan Donn. 30p from the Mkii as we know it now looks like film because of 35mm FOV and DOF. Selective focus has been the cinematographers story telling tool for over 100 years. Thats why 24p on a XHA1 doesn't look like, "Hey, I'm in a movie!," because of the compressed optics of a 1/3" CCD sensor camera. 24p goes back to June 11, 1878 in Palo Alto, Ca. 180 degree shutter for the most acceptable amount of visually perceived motion blur. And for me the gooey optics, for the lack of a better term, of 35mm lenses. But, I will take manual audio gain controls and live histogram for my 7D please.
nice.. and while they released t2i.. t1i owners got a firmware with language updates.. well done
Stu, have you tried twixtor? From fxguide or redcenter, I recall Shane Hurlbut said if 5D got 24p, he would still shoot 30p and twixtor to 24. Curious to hear your thoughts on it.
My thoughts are different than Mr. Hurlbut's. You can read some of them here.
i tested quite a lot of optical flow engines and they all produced very noticable (to my eyes) artifacts, so i was surprised about Shane Hurlbut's view as well -- so much that i went back und tested twixtor again.
basically i got the same distortions that all the other oflow solutions have, so my only conclusions are that:
a) they have enough man power at the show to fix the artifacts manually (basically paint jobs).
b) they shoot and edit in a way that the artifacts are not so obvious.
c) that Shane Hurlbut isn't as annoyed by image distortions as i am.
hearing his comments about rolling shutter issues (or rather non-issues), i would guess that it's mainly c) with probably a bit of a) and b) thrown in.
personally, i can't stand the CGI feel and the distortions introduced by twixtor and the like, but i guess most of the audience wouldnt care.
++ chris
Stu, what do you think about this new ultra-fast lens (F0.95)? http://noktor.com/
This could be great for shooting in lowlight! (http://www.vimeo.com/9820219)
I'm more excited about the 25fps option!!! finally something for us europeans! Over are the days of changing metadata and syncing sound!
Hey Stu, I think part 1 of the interview is kick ass! That brought memories of EIAS as the only real viable Mac solution and the Indy SGIs back in the day. Very interesting to get a peek into your production past. Thanks!
I notice the Gundam statue in BG. Did you shoot any giant robot epic with 7D on Merlin? ;-)
That's from my trip to Tokyo with fhphd, for our course on DSLR cinematography.
More info here: http://fxphd.com/
I saw the video but I don't think the robot was in it. Any footage of it you've got?
Instead of visiting Japan I just had to play with my toy robots ;-)
http://pds10.egloos.com/pds/200904/17/14/e0040614_49e7eb1f5ee9e.jpg
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Hey Stu, how are you doing?
This Canos 5D Firmware will have the camera shooting video at 50 or 60p too?
Thanks Stu!
Hi Carlos,
Nope.
Can the 5D accept a nanoflash? I'm trying out a new technique and I will need a bit rate that would approach 200mbs.
Thanks,
Great forum
M
Hi guys, the 5d has less rolling shutter effects at 30p than 24p because of the way the video is hacked out of the live view. The refresh rate is directly connected to the frame rate. So that's why I think Shane would do 30p twixtor rather than 24p. PLEASE email me if you know different as I'd love to find out wether I'm correct.
leomumford@gmail.com
Hi Guys!
What I really would like to see is the 50i or 60i mode in full HD. (Even better would be 50/60p but thats probably not possible on that hardware)
"Oh no! The video look!" - Maybe, BUT what...
- if I want to shoot with that video look because of its look?
- if I need high temporal resolution (slomo effects, fast movement, etc.)
Our eyes can see more than 24p a second - its only the minimum framerate to make us think its a stable image. And I really hate fast action on a big screen in cinemas, because it gets so ugly blured out.
And there is software out there that can fill in the gaps an make 50/60p from 50/60i or 25/30p. But 50/60i source material will work much better!
Everyone just jumping on 24p because "its the film look" will give all movies the same ugly motion blur. Sometimes this might be wanted, but some times not - and I really want the choise not the restriction.
Cheers
Christoph