Now featuring just one Ninja claw
Tuesday, May 26, 2009 at 6:28PM 
When asked to describe shooting video with the Canon 5D Mark II, I responded that it was like being offered a backrub by a supermodel — who’s wearing Ninja climbing claws. In other words, it seems like a gift from heaven at first glance, but the actual experience is pain unimaginable. But still, you get to hang out with a supermodel…
Today one claw has been removed. Canon announced and released a firmware update that enables manual control of shutter, aperture, and ISO in video mode.
But we are still limited to 30p. No mention of 24p in the announcement.
I’ve been accused of being a “fan” of shooting video with the 5D Mark II. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, what I said was “With 24p and manual exposure control this camera would be of use. Without those adjustments, it’s a tantalizing but ultimately frustrating curiosity to the DV Rebel.”
So for the record, the Canon 5D Mark II is still not “of use” to DV Rebel filmmakers.
(Unless your whole film is in 25% slow motion!)
So, thanks Canon, sincerely, for listening, and for getting us what you could, when you could.
But your work is not done.
A camera that does not shoot 24p is not an acceptable filmmaking tool.
Stu
Oops, got fooled by the link on canonrumors.com — the firmware update will be released on June 2nd. Thanks @divergentshadow for the correction!
Stu
The more I look at this poster/press release, the more annoyed I get. To make it so film-industry specific, and to be so “we heard you and we did what you wanted,” but ignore 24p… Arg. It’s insulting. Yes, web video and NTSC TV can be produced at 30p (although no narrative episodic is) — but the thing specifically mentions “enthusiasm by major motion picture studios, independent filmmakers.” Those folks need, not want, need, 24p.
Rated A for Almost, but not quite.
Reader Comments (56)
BFD, let me know when a D90 firmware update happens. Not to say Canon made a bad camera, it's just that I own a d90 and not a 5dMkII
LOL Stu. But a step forward indeed. So now, I must go and grab an MKii body to go with my pair of GH-1's.
Pretty excited about this. Thanks for doing SOMETHING right, Canon.
Well, I for one am encouraged. 24p can't be too big of a problem compared to the announced feature updates. I'm in.
-gl
Hi Stu, I was interested to see your take on this announcement.
I find it interesting that you value the 24fps as much as the manual control because in my case I can deal with the fps but not the lack of control. Then again, you are the pro...
I think there is a lot of hope to see the 24fps simply because of the way they advertise this update: 'popular demand'. They would look a bit silly to forgot the item no1 (or 2) on the list of many users and call it popular demand!
The bandwidth is there so I dont see why we wont see another firmware update in a few months giving us 24p. Actually, I would also love to have 60p at a lower resolution too since we are talking about wish list!
yes thanks Canon...
yet the twin talons of AGC audio and ANY kind of usable video out are still poised glinting in the sun
Gotta disagree - this absolutely does make it an acceptable filmmaking tool. Not being able to control the dynamics of your image was a serious limitation, not having frame rate options is a minor inconvenience. If your entire goal is to match exactly the look of a hollywood film then yes, no 24p is a limitation - but why limit yourself to imitating the look of Hollywood?
my guess is that this is more canon's response to all of us using non-canon lenses to gain aperture control (i type this as i gently stroke my F-series nikon 50mm f/1.4) than it is to actually please film makers, professional or otherwise.
a 720p option, a slower frame rate and turning off the mic gain control? asking the camera to do less, not more seems like a simple enough request, though none of which are affected by purchasing a nikon lens :)
Jason W - AGC has been disabled (and level meters added) in the 5D mark free firmware hack:
http://vimeo.com/4817844
If you are shooting short movies and music videos (without the speed-up audio trick, which works at 30p), then yes, the lack of 24p is troublesome. But if you are shooting weddings, commercials, and other artistic abstract videos, 30p is fine. Personally, I needed 24p (=23.976 and 29.97) support and manual control before I buy one. Now, I am closer into buying one. But not quite there yet. Much closer though.
Wow Hundon over at cinema5d.com has been busting his hump trying to get this manual control with his firmware hack (and getting close). Good thing the first thing he achieved was to fix the audio. Now forget 24P : ) , how about 25p for the rest of the world?
anyone wanna buy a cheap Z7U? :)
She could still do a lot with just the one hand... If you were careful.
A good step - kudos to Canon, but without 24P I'm just not interested. The GH1 is still a way more flexible camera overall (takes multiple lenses with adapters, does 24,30, and 60fps, has flipout LCD) and is $1000 cheaper, including lens. I'm hoping Panasonic follows suit and listens to it's users - fixing GH1's "issues". BTW, I don't believe Canon will put 24P in any of their DLSRs anytime soon, as that seems to still be the realm of their video department. After all, they just released a new camera that could have had 24P in it, and instead they did 20P(!!!) and 30P.
My personal take on this, as D-90 user: let's hope this will motivate Nikon to follow up with the Firmware Update, *unofficially* mentioned to be in-the-works.
I will not cancel my GH1 order for that.
They should have written: "We heard the complaints from Hollywood and indy-filmmaker, well, at least kind of. Then we did something so they would shut up and stop saying we advertise other Companies with our unwillingness to implement known wants from the beginning"
For me that's another Sign that they didn't listen to us at all.
Maybe this means that frame rates for one reason or another is not something canon can remedy in a firmware update, it might be embedded in the chips themselves. Maybe the next gen can do it, but then again I'd expect a proper camera by then. Even with manual control and 24p handing isn't as nice as on a real video camera, not to mention color controls, easier to work with formats, built in xlr, very little (if any) wobble. The only thing these dslrs have had going for them no matter how many manual controls you add to them is depth of field, and low light and (to a degree) interchangeable lenses. Once the first 2 of those 3 are on a real video camera, video dslrs will be largely irrelevant to video people again.
I also wanted to say I hope this upgrade works on the T1i as well, I'd love to pick one up to dick around with.
Any word on if it works 4 the Rebel T1i as well?
evan yes did see that, obviously the manual audio hack not exactly fully achieved yet and out in the wild, and the hack will still need to be applied to the new FW but looks promising tho!
Canon, what about us from the PAL world? What is the use of 30p? If you dont want to put 24p, at least put 25p in order to treat us equally.
Simon, I think 25p is a little too close to 24p... And Canon is reluctant to do that because a great 25p camera would cannibalize sales of more profitable pro video gear.
Sony won't do it either.
It's ironic that the only company that might deliver a good 24p solution is Nikon, because they do not have a video division to march down the corridor and scream "unfair!" at them.
C.
Well, keep in mind that it is Sony that makes Nikon's sensors. That may cause some trouble for nikon's video ambitions, no?
At least its getting better and maybe in a year we have the cameras we really want available. Canon, Panasonic, Nikon, Sony... they are now under pressure.
Panasonic did an important move with the GH1 and this is now the answer from Canon. I´m looking forward to see, what Nikon will do next to catch up.
I wish that they could do this firmware update to my canon hv 20 as well.
Awesome news ! That made my day :)
Now I can buy some canon lenses at last.
Hooray !
Well that sure sounds like a move into the right direction. Sure took them long enough. Let's hope it does not stop there.
But it is quite annoying how they made it sound like they never planned for anything else and always had the best of their customers in mind....which I don't quite buy, haha.
Sony is making the sensors for Nikons, Canon is making lenses for the broadcast Sony cameras... nice circle.
They all work hand in hand, cannot see any competition here. That's why we get disabled firmware, bad codecs...
... and forgot to mention, users are preferring Nikon lenses for the Canon 5D2 cameras...
I´m a faithful follower of your blog and ex-orphanage stuff, and I know that you are one of the pro of de industry. Thats why I ask this question:
I am sure that it is better to shoot 24p for film but it can not be of 30p to 24 in After Effect or any special program for this?
btw: your RSS don´t work with my ms outlook, ?!?
Two fundamental questions:
1) In Europe, Canon ship this camera with 25p? 'Cause 30p in PAL countries is a nonsense and very useless.
2) We can connect this camera via HDMI out to the new AJA KiPro or Nano Flash and record 24/25p whit better codecs? Or the HDMI signal is limited to 720 p or something else? (I´ve heard this).
I won't buy this camera till problems are fixed. Still; is there a chance a good programmer, who does not work for Canon, could write the needed code?
atd3d-> nay, unfortunately the european version includes 30p mode only:/
ed/"is there a chance a good programmer, who does not work for Canon, could write the needed code?"
Yes
Great news. Thanks for the heads up.
Yep, speaking as someone who works in commercials in London, 30 fps is a real pain in the backside for us. Ideally I'd like to have 25 fps, but 24 would be close enough.
I know that there are directors out there who are actively interested in using the 5D MkII as an extra handheld camera on set. So come on Canon, this is a great step forward, but please please please don't stop there!
to borrow from NA... One small step for man, one
giantsmall step for Rebelkind.Is it visually distracting to change the Aperture while shooting? As in does the exposure 'jump'?
Personally I think that 24/25p will be included in this release.
That would be awesome Dave.
But I'll believe it when I see it ;)
Canon rumors just posted info that 24p is in the works. Apparently it wont be in the June 2nd firmware but it should be in a new firmware not long after... If you believe the rumors. If its true this camera should be shaping up to be a very nice video camera with manual control and several usable framerate options. Now if that audio input hack works out and gets released publicly and gets ported to the newer firmwares, this camera should have about everything we need. After that all the things we need are just icing on the cake like full screen HDMI output and focus assist during recording and maybe 720p with variable framerates.
I hope someone figures out the big wheel on the back would make a lovely continuous fps selector.
Of all things, a little pocket Casio cam is the only one to get it right so far by allowing the frame rate to go as high as it can by decimating the resolution and perhaps bitrate. I hope someone makes it a convention.
I would have no problem mixing in a bit of SD footage into a 1080 shoot if it meant more flexible frame rates
(I just finished a CGI heavy project shot on Red. Mixing in HV20 footage successfully was no surprise but even the video from a crappy point and shoot still cam worked well enough for a few shots.
@ noahyv: What about the 12 minute limitation ;) Just wanted to point out that even then people will find something to say: "It's not working for me. I want more."
Don't supermodels come with ninja claws as standard? Bony fingers and long fingernails? And the back rub would throw out the only good thing about it! You couldn't even check her out!
Our tiny advertising agency up in Montana is pretty stoked for this. For our television commercials, this is now perfect. We need 29.97 and manual control was the only thing holding us back. The lenses and accessories, the portability factor, and the low cost are huge. We'll be using these in tandem with two EX-1s for long-form, but we're pretty excited about this.
From what I've read on internet forums (clearly the most trustworthy source of information available), the 5D actually IS 29.97, but the file header lies and says it's 30.00.
In other words, there's a possibility that it really is 29.97, and all you have to do is reinterpret the footage at that rate to get your off-camera audio to lock perfectly for 10 minutes and beyond.
Robert - When I ask for manual control, its not so that I can change settings mid-shot, but rather so that I can (a) quickly adjust settings manually prior to pushing rec and (b) those settings don't change unless I tell it to do so. This way I can lock in shutter speed, and a wide open aperture (for shallow depth of field) and adjust for lighting with ISO and ND filters. Currently as I understand this camera, and why I haven't purchased "yet", the camera will automatically adjust any of those three settings to get well bracketed exposure up until the point you push record. This is fine for most photography (though every point and shoot I've owned has had settings like Aperture Priority) but unworkable for video that is destined for film or any director that wants a 'particular' look.
Ironically, this means Rebels are asking for 'less' as in less automation, just make the camera sit still and not move once I choose my settings. Right now folks are using hacks to get the ISO and I think the shutter to just lock. Which, again ironically, is a actually function on the Canon HV20, for similar reasons.
2 cents.
This is like a big slap in the balls.
Or rather its the grand announcement for the forthcoming slap in the balls.
Rated A for audacity.
Cool your jets. 24p is coming. Believe!
Did anyone else think this was an unofficial poster made by a forum member or somebody apart from Canon?
The "epic" line really throws me off... it looks like a very cheesy, badly done nudge to RED. If I was Canon i'd be really embarrased by this picture.
Hello Canon, this is me from Europe, did you ever hear of this place?
Yeah I've been thinking that it really reminds me of RED's upcoming models, just from the red tag line. That sure felt a little strange. Well not sure what their thinking behind that really was.
@DanNi
I didnt believe the rumor at first because when I saw the poster, that's exactly what I thought. Not that one of the biggest camera companies on earth made the poster, but that some hack in a forum made it in Gimp. Very amateur.
Aside from that, I never made a Red connection and even reading it again, I dont. Dont give Red that much credit. "Epic" has long been associated with "epic" FILMS and I think that is only what they were going for here. It's a fake MOVIE poster and "Epic" as in "epic film" or story, not as in Red.
I think people read far too much into things. Red doesnt have as much control over the universe as they think they have. Or as the fanbois think they have.
Canon has egg on it's face.