Adobe CS5
Friday, April 23, 2010 at 1:33PM 
If you stopped me on the street and asked me what I find compelling about Adobe Creative Suite 5, here’s what I’d say:
64-bit is a big deal for After Effects users. It may well be the end of those show-stopping “could not create image buffer” errors which have for years been the embarrassment of After Effects artists trying to do high-end work.
Photoshop’s Content-Aware Fill. Finally we have actual witchcraft in an Adobe application.
Roto Brush. While the Photoshop kids are trying to content-aware remove bikinis from celebrity photos, the After Effects crowd gets to play with the Roto Brush. Does it work as well as we see in the demos? Occasionally, yes. But even when it needs a little more massaging—such as when the foreground object is complex, and the background has similar colors and textures—the experience of using Roto Brush is not only speedier than traditional rotoscoping, it’s also considerably less maddening. Think of Roto Brush as making the work of roto faster and easier, not eliminating the work, and you’ll be in love.
Premiere Pro. It’s easy to get excited by the performance features in Premiere Pro CS5. The Mercury playback engine, native editing of HDSLR footage, etc. But the real news with Premiere Pro CS5 is that the term “Pro” is, at long last, appropriate. Premiere is now good. Real good.
Amazon has CS5 Production Premium available for pre-order now, with a ship date of June 30—but the actual ship date is much sooner. I’ve created a page on the ProLost store for the various CS5 upgrade options. Every time you buy from the ProLost store, I plant a tree made of puppies in front of the Unicorn factory in your name.
Reader Comments (50)
You killed puppies to make a tree? That's preposterous.
Bring on 64bit applications, let's make good use of all this RAM.
Stu,
Any plans to also sell the full version of CS5 Production Premium? I am an FCS user that is seriously looking to move to Adobe with this version, but I won't be eligible to buy any of the upgrade packs. If I can order through you and get a puppy tree at the unicorn plant I would much rather go that route.
Chris, I can't find the full version on Amazon yet, but I will add it when I do. I'm perplexed by its absence.
If my tree can be made of kittens instead of puppies, you've got a deal.
Sorry Randy. Using the kittens to build a puppy hospital.
Ditto on Premiere PRO
In your opinion, would you say it is now definitely above fcp?
All signs seem to suggest this, at least for me.
Yes, is Premiere significantly improved in the interface and stability? What about a nudge function?
64-bit is not the very end of image buffer errors - you can still make 'em if you push around 15,000 pixels x 15,000 pixels in 3D in a 5.6k frame in 32-bit float like a few crazy people I know.
But they are easy to deal with thanks to the much more informative error message. And most normal 2k and 4k work will never see one. 64-bit in AE is huge, really huge. It really makes it almost feel like a brand new app especially since the code seems so much faster overall. And some early tests on 64-bit plugs that are MP opitimized make this the first version of AE that feels "fast".
On the same hardware, I think most everyone will see anywhere from good to outstanding performance improvements as well as better stability.
So excited!
Now I just wish After Effects had real node based compositing. I'd be in heaven.
As far as Premiere goes, I think people are just assuming they're going to be editing multiple streams of 4K right out of the box on their laptop. Adobe's not really going out of their way to tell everyone how insanely fast their storage will have to be to support that. Some guy I talked to thought he'd be able to this with his $600 desktop PC.
So stu, why wasn't premiere "Pro" before today? Every time I sit down in front of final cut I walk away cursing , "WTF do you mean I can't import a Photo-JPEG AVI to this timeline" I've been a premiere convert for years... what took you so long?
Content aware fill must be the biggest thing since layers got added into PS. I have a couple of images where this probably would've saved me a couple of weeks cloning and copy-paste work. I emptied and shut down Times Sq for example.
THX Stu, I had abandoned Premiere Pro because of its quirkiness, and would NEVER had considered looking at it again until you mentioned it was good. Now I can finally roto in naked celebrities to my visual effects shots. ;)
Great post Stu.
I saw Adobe's CS5' unveiling web video and was definitely blown away by the Content Aware Fill for Photoshop. With regards to Premiere Pro I currently use a MacBook Pro with PP CS4, but I have found the max 4GB of RAM to be lacking. Should I switch to a PC with Win 7 64bit and much more RAM, or should I save up some money and get a Mac Pro? Thanks for any advice you could provide.
@ Eric Ferguson
The word "Pro" should mean "professional." Now, what professional would be using a Photo-JPEG AVI? In the United States I've never heard of a single professional video,film, or commercial using that codec to edit with. Youtube editors don't count.
By the way, according to your logic, DaVinci isn't good because it can't use AVI's.
@illya Lots of stock footage is delivered as photo-jpeg QT - I don't see why an AVI would be less proffesional.
And of course professional isn't written like that - that'll teach me to preview my posts in the future.
hi kevin,
the decision mac or pc is connected with several questions, at the end of the day both get the job done.
things to consider are:
- critical software that is available for one platform only
- investment in software for a certain platform so far
- interoperability with other people/studios
- personal preference (if you spend most of your life in front of a screen it's quite important to feel at ease).
hardware wise, a PC has the benefit of cheaper low-end and midrange towers. on the high end they are about the same, ie a mac pro is worth its money. there's also a better choice of graphic cards for PCs. if you factor in software cost, then buying a cheap computer often doesn't make sense anymore though.
i really wished apple would make a tower with an i5 or i7 and 6 disk bays, even if they'd slap an extra 25% over a PC build on it for the OS etc, it should still be half of a mac pro and perfectly adequate for most tasks.
++ chris
Hi
about the roto brush...
I'm guessing it will be good enought that you can get by using a "not-so-green-screen", with less bleeding and at the same time simpler requirements in terms of lighting, space, etc.
so, to anybody that has already used it: do you think that would work?
hi norman,
in fact that brings up an interesting option:
how about using a grey-screen?
that would avoid spill and and color sampling issues, which are problematic with compressed formats like HDV.
for feature film work where you want to keep fine detail and semi-transparency, greenscreen will stay for a long time i guess. but the nice thing is that with the latest development in cameras (arri alexa, red, etc), these things will become easier to do as well.
of course due to the second law of compositing-dynamics, that means that people will get even sloppier when shooting the screen, which means the end work stays the same ;)
++ chris
Ask anyone I've worked with—I'm far more likely to ask a stand-in prop or setpiece to be painted gray than green or blue. I'm not the only one—look at the suits worn by the actors playing fish dudes in the Pirates sequels.
Roto Brush will work a lot better if the background is consistent and a different color than the foreground. Grayscreen should work very well, as long as your FG elements don't have much gray.
@ Sander de Regt
In the past 5 years I haven't worked on a single commercial, music video, film, main title, pilot, or TV show that's used an AVI. When I hear people saying things like, "FCP makes me sick because I can't use *fill in the blank* codec," it just screams inexperience to me.
Fact is, a pro program shouldn't have excuses. Don't need a codec? No matter, the program should have it if you ever do.
To me, that screams of pro.
Fcp's (and apple as a whole) contempt for the user's preferences in what they do with their personal devices irks me so much.
@Sage p
I don't get that last line. It sounds like you're talking about another device and taking it out on FCP. I don't know anyone that works with AV on a serous level. FCP does what I need it to do right now. It hasn't shown me any contempt for my preference. (???)
That AV above should be AVI.
@ Sage p
"Fact is, a pro program shouldn't have excuses. Don't need a codec? No matter, the program should have it if you ever do.
To me, that screams of pro."
What market do you work in?
actually final cut works just fine with most avi files and even more if you have perian installed. it won't be optimized for real-time effects, but i agree that this is not really an issue. for everything long form you'll most likely transcode anyway.
back to the topic of CS5, what i love about premiere is that they support things like VOB files so you can edit DVD material quickly. apples support for mpeg2 in general has been petty lousy.
++ chris
@illyy CIneform is a pretty professional coded and works with AVIs if I'm not mistaken. Just the fact that you haven't worked with those files in 5 years doesn't make it a less professional option. AVI is just a wrapper, as is QT/*.MOV.
@illya I do apologize for typing your name wrong. And 'Cineform' and the word 'codec'. I really need to go to sleep apparently.
And to prevent these mistakes in the future, I've just created a user profile for this site, so I can actually edit my posts. Thanks for making this possible Stu!
I've never really been interested in After Effects or the full version of Photoshop before, but for those two features alone, the RotoBrsuh and Content Aware Fill, I think the time has come for me think about buying that Production Premium bundle. It sucks they're so expensive here in Australia though.
Hi Stu,
Just wondering. My current workflow involves using Cineform NeoScene as an intermediate codec before editing it in Premiere Pro. Aside from the wavelet-technology NeoScene does a 4:2:0 to 4:2:2 interpretation, which makes grading with Magic Bullet Looks easier/better. Now with the Mercury Playback engine, I guess you don't need NeoScene for the wavelets any longer, but what about the 4:2:2 interpretation?
In other words, can I simplify my workflow, or is NeoScene still a necessary step?
Noob Question:
Should I invest in Premeire Pro or Final Cut Pro? Which is better? I know this is probably up to personal taste, but what's your verdict, Stu?
Albert, watch how I duck that question. You *need* After Effects, no question. And you probably need Photoshop too—so "invest" in CS5 Production Premium, which costs less than AE and PS together, and look, you get Premiere Pro for free! Use it for a while and then decide if you want to try Final Cut Pro as well.
Going to be upgrading my CS4 Master Collection and i want a puppy tree in my name so add it to your store please.
Stu, now I'm beginning to wonder if you're ducking my question as well - lol...
Glenn, I totally second that - Adobe software is twice the price in Europe versus the USA: If production premium costs USD 2000 in USA, Adobe sells it for EUR 3000 in Europe, while at the current exchange rate this would translate to approx. USD 1500 (!) The legalese, however, does not allow for buying online (e.g. through Amazon), as it contains an export restriction. So I can't support Stu with a puppy tree in my name. And yet, all I need is a digital download with a serial...
Richard, I don't think you're going to want to change your workflow.
Crumpy, there's now a Master Collection page in the store just for you.
@ Sander de Regt
Using the Cineform codec as an example doesn't prove that a photo-jpeg AVI is regularly used by professionals. It just proves that you have the option of using Cineform with an AVI wrapper.
Seriously though (and I'm not being snarky) I'm genuinely curious to know what studios and freelancers use AVI's on their *real* paying jobs. If you work in post production, tell me how often you're using AVI files to edit, grade, composite, and finish with.
@illya I've basically retired from postproduction over the last couple of years to focus on writing. But Artbeats - which I consider to be a professional company - delivers it's downloads as Photo-jpeg Quicktimes. How is that different from Photo-jpeg AVIs? They're both container formats.
Cineform with an AVI wrapper is still an AVI right? Or are we talking about different things? Personally I like editing in Edius. The Canopus codecs works with AVIs. So if I edit something I use those AVIs to edit with.
Maybe you don't consider people doing wedding videos or corporate videos for a living professionals, but I do.
@ Sander de Regt
Quicktimes are vastly different from AVI's even if they're using Photo-JPEG. You could write an entire essay on the differences between an AVI and an .MOV. I'll post a link to a wiki article that briefly covers the differences.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_container_formats
Try transcoding the Photo-JPEG Quicktimes from Art Beats to AVI and the difference should be clear.
@illya I have no idea what that link shoud say about QT vs AVI in regards to professional use. As for me personally I've never had much luck transcoding QTs to anything else, because of the weird gamma things Apple likes to do with QT.
Thanks Stu, artfully as always ;)
I've actually taken a FCP class before, so that's my only reference to NLE's.
I guess what I'm asking is, outside of personal taste to controls etc., in terms of performance, are they equal in ability? OR does the Mercury Playback Engine put CS5 on top?
But thanks, it makes sense to just invest in Production Premium.
albert,
i haven't had any first hand experience with the mercury engine yet, but from what i've seen CS5 will be faster then FCP in pure performance with the right hardware. but it really depends on what kind of projects you do, performance hardly ever is the main problem for me when i'm editing. for normal projects i'm doing fine with FCP on a 3.5 year old macpro, so unless you're doing tons of effect work on your editing session, other factors such as compability with the rest of the workflow and personal preference are more important.
premiere scores very high if you plan to move the project to AE afterwards, final cut still has a larger base in post houses and ships with some nice extra programs. but apple really needs to pull off some tricks with version 8 or they'll lose some users sooner or later.
++ chris
Thanks Chris that gives me a much better idea.
I guess it's like what Stu says in the DV Rebel. The NLE is simply for cutting, the effects and onlining would happen in AE. So with that in mind, performance is not that big of a deal.
Does that sound about right?
hi albert,
it really depends on your kind of project. like, if you're doing a documentary or a character driven fiction film, then performance is a non issue and you want an app where you feel at home and that helps you keep organized. if you have a project with a lot of high-end effects, then a well planned workflow is the main focus since you won't finish in the NLE anyway.
the kind of projects where performance is most important is stuff with lots of simple effects and fast turnaround times. in these situations premiere would make definitely make more sense because you can preview tons of effects in realtime and finish most things in the editing app.
++ chris
CS5 doesn't install properly on Windows 7. Many people are having problem.
I have been an editor for 30 years. CMX, Avid Compser, Avid DS and FCP have been my NLEs of choice. Since using After Effects is a given in my work flow, I am intrigued with what 64bit CS5 has to offer me. If it is as fast and stable as reported....and Dynamic Link between Premiere and AE is efficient...this could be a definite game changer in which software I use.
Thanks a lot guys, that was all really informative!
I am a full time freelance editor and I strictly use .avi's and my reason is simple- Working on cs3 on a PC .mov's are jumpy and don't playback well in premiere. Avi's do.
Stu, i'm very much sold on CS5. I've been to a couple Adobe events and even met some of the engineers behind it. Love it all. My issue is Mac or PC. As another mentioned above....i have a MBP but would it be more wiser to put together a Win7 64-bit or stay on Mac and later buy a Mac Pro?