On the other hand...
Friday, November 21, 2008 at 10:13AM 
...by the time the Scarlet Bolex might become available, we might also have the above camera. Micro 4/3 format, interchangeable lenses and autofocus (probably), HD video and 12 megapixel stills (most likely), all for somewhere in the neighborhood of $1,000 (pure conjecture, although the G1 is currently only $800 with a lens).
You'll have to weigh 3K raw vs. whatever compressed video format Panasonic chooses for the Lumix G (we usin' code names) of course. And there's always the chance that Panasonic will do something stupid to limit the G's professional use, like skipping 24p or hampering manual control. But more than any other camera company, Panasonic has shown the ability to overcome engineering inertia and do the important next thing. We have them to thank for consumer 24p—which we take for granted now, but was a monumental event that Canon and Sony were slow and reluctant to follow.
I for one can't wait to see the subway shorts.
Oh yeah, and:
UPDATE: Looks like the prototype LUMIX G has an AVHD badge on the back (thanks to dcloud for the link in the comments). That's good news, it's a post-friendly codec supported by many NLEs.
Reader Comments (27)
yeah ive been interested in this possible beast since you and wingrove we're talking LX3 and then the current G1 was announced. i think its gonna obviously be hugely dependent on specs as most things are but they have the potential to blow some doors off and i really hope they do. can anyone say CinemaDNG?! FTW
It would be interesting if Panasonic takes their AVCHD compression from the HMC-150 to this stills camera. Since AVCHD is already being supported natively in Premiere CS4, I'd like to see it used here as well over cheap SDHC Cards... I am extremely impressed with the footage coming off the HMC-150 as we have been conducting tests with the camera over the past week.
4/3" is almost as large as 16mm so the video and photos coming off this camera would look great and you can't beat the price. It's going to be an interesting year!!!
4/3 is larger than 16mm, see the diagram. And yes, I too am hoping for AVCHD.
I also think high bitrate AVCHD would be a great way to go. It's not going to be very color correctable in post, but it's a great picture for disk space used.
Seems like DSMC title is very up for grabs, with RED being the cinema end of things, and cano/niko/pano being the stills end of things- it's only a matter of time until the two come together in more consumer friendly sweet spots.
We've got a heckofa year ahead of us no matter which way all this stuff turns out. I'd just love to have a plan so my gear purchases now would dovetail into the future.
More Nikon glass for my Brevis? Or a set of fast c-mount primes for my Scarlet 2/3, or something altogether different?!
Where's that video crystal ball, and for that matter, that damn floating skateboard from Back to the Future?
It'd be great to see that paired with a compression comparable to the FlashXDR's.
The early concept reveal of the G1 had an AVCHD logo on the back side below the display. This camera might also be the first DSLR to shake off the "jelly effect".
Hopefully the ISO problems of the still version can be corrected by the time the video version of the G1 hits the market.
Sorry for the confusion... I meant to say 4/3" is almost as large as S35 based on your chart: http://rebelsguide.com/dl/sensorSizes_06_cheatSheet.png
Then again maybe it's not and I need to do my homework :)
Hmm interesting post.
How hard would it be to do some kind of comparison chart with avchd, dv, hdv, cinema dng, P2 and whatever the 5DII or D90 does to compare the data rates or compression ratios between all these formats. Not sure what criteria you use but it would be great to somehow graphically compare the possible formats with those we've been (somewhat) happy with using so far? How does the quality of the 5D compare to an HVX etc. Yes it's apples and oranges but in the same way that it's deeply satisfying to see your continuing prowess in sensor size comparison of future cams with those we already know it would be great to do the same with data rates etc.
Thanks Jas
We need some blog posts propping up something like Cineform as a RAW standard.
All of these DSLR cams should make that transition sooner than later.
How long did it take before RAW was a standard feature on digital still cameras?
The 5 stages of the RED announcement:
Denial: Dorkmanalysis
Anger: Too Much is Not Enough
Bargaining: So Jim Called...
Depression: I may complain a lot...
Acceptance: On the other hand...
Brilliant Rocket Boy!
I literally laughed out loud for a few minutes
re: "We need some blog posts propping up something like Cineform as a RAW standard."
We are open to that, CineForm even joined CinemaDNG group to see if we can push that along. CineForm RAW is an excellent compressor (fast and low gate count) for still cameras transitioning to greater than HD motion imaging devices.
The up hill battle is get these Japanese cameras to switch from their AVC/H.264 addiction to something more friendly on post. A camera that is designed for a stills data rate, will tend to compress the image too much for many motion applications (look at the 5D Mk-II.) Even Red One is close to this category, it certainly was with REDCODE 28, with the data rates bound by Compact Flash speed, limiting the image quality. The next generation of hybrid cameras need to support 40-50+MB/s motion data rates to offer competition in the Red motion world (for full raster RAW) or 25-35MB/s for full sensor downsamples to 12-bit 1080p 4:4:4 (taking these large sensors down to 8-bit 4:2:0 is just sad.)
David Newman
CTO, CineForm
Jas, I fear that there are just too many variations and unquantifiable factors to make such a comparison by the numbers. Image quality can vary greatly between cameras that use the same codec and data rate, and data rate itself is never a reliable indicator of image quality (as you know).
What we really need is a http://www.cafepress.com/prolost.332002953" REL="nofollow">subway short!
I hope I get a commission on the T-shirts.
LOL. You're too much. I thought you were joking when you said you were working on them.
LOL.
I hope you ordered quick Brian because Cafe Press just flagged that image as possible copyright infringement. Which is BS, since they are a public utility. It would be like prohibiting a design based on a stop sign.
Arg.
Most shooting setups in a narrative production, have the camera tethered with cables coming from every conceivable port.
It would be interesting to see if recording the HDMI output through a Kona IO HD to ProRes codecis a good outcome for some situations. I would like to find out if it works.
The D90 MJPEG compression is atrocious, but the exposure and ISO settings can be locked and controlled. It seems that the same is possible with current G1, though I haven't used it yet and don't know if the viewfinder overlay can put away.
Stu,
It's gone from CafePress - fight back! I successfully fought a yank of my short "Plug Wars" off iFilm and got it back up in a few hours.
I want one and ready to pull the trigger.
Per the post, the "5 Stages of Red" pretty much mirrors me. I'm using a HV30 after 6 years with DVX100/DVX100a (and renting when I have a high end client shoot) but I want something else. I also make a short with my DSLR (Pentax K10d) using 3fps, slow moving actor and Twixtor. Not realistic but I was not trying to be.
http://www.vimeo.com/1788179 (
Shameless Plug. It premieres at the Carrboro Film Festival in NC, USA on Sunday)
I do want a DSMC that I can use. My first camera was Minolta SLR at age 10. My first motion picture camera was the top-end Chinon Super8. I want the digital bastard son of those two cameras...
Wow. Its gone already. I get all my T's done at www.printfection.com. I like the quality better than CafePress, and I also had CafePress remove some of my own original designs for copyright infringement. Give them a try.
Stu teah i guess so. proof is in the pudding. I missed the link though? what was on the shirt?
stu,
Based on these images, its avchd
http://www.digitalcamera.jp/html/HotNews/image/2008-09/12/G1-086-L.jpg
http://www.digitalcamera.jp/html/HotNews/image/2008-09/12/G-HD-L.jpg
i'm excited about this cam. I pray to god its not crippled.
link : http://www.digitalcamera.jp/html/HotNews/image/2008-09/12/G1-086-L.jpg" REL="nofollow">image1
AVCHD... I hope that logo is there not just because it's the compression of choice, but because Pana treats it as a full camcorder and therefore gives it all the features that a prosumer 'picture taking device' requires. If that's the case then I'll know exactly what camera/camcorder I will be ordering next year!
Panasonic is all about AVCHD in it's consumer and prosumer cameras. It's pretty funny in that they used to poop all over long-gop compression while preaching intraframe mpeg2 that is used in DVCProHD. I chalk it up to marketing... what can ya do.
Also, I made a chart to show the difference in a bunch of sensor sizes, got sick of looking it up all the time:
http://tom11.com/blog/?p=8
Check the HD quality of the Panasonic Lumix LX-3 if you want in my blog with a short film I've made of Wasps having "sex" on the street.
www.myphotojournalism.blogspot.com
Miguel A. Lopes
I am looking forward to this camera, but I think y'all are quite wrong on hoping for AVCHD.
AVCHD consists simply of H.264 video plus AC-3 audio in a transport stream format.
It is not "post" friendly, because with FCP and other NLEs, you have to import it and transcode the video to some other format to use.
Since this is not a tape based camera, there is no reason to have a tape based format (especially with data rates determined by tape speed.)
A better format would be regular MPEG-4 format files. Its already using the H.264 codec which is part of the MPEG-4 AVC standard, so why not use these format files?
Then you can set the data rate at whatevers appropriate.
You can also set the frame rate at whatever you desire (not sure AVCHD "standard" allows 24fps).
AVCHD is a marketing thing, and it forces obsolete technology on people when tapless camcorders have no reason or need to use it.
Panasonic released the goods on this today.