Thursday
Oct222009
The Ballad of the GH1
Thursday, October 22, 2009 at 11:59PM Come and listen to a story about a guy named John,
Likes shooting vids, set to buy a GH1.
The day it showed up he shot some 24p,
And played it back big on his plasma TV.
16:9 that is. Widescreen. High Definition.
Well, the first thing he sees is big nasty blocks,
Color smear and compression knocked off his socks,
Then he tried to edit that 24p,
But transcoding out the pulldown kept him too busy.
3:2 that is. Interlaced. Redundant frames.
John packaged up the GH1 and sent it out the door,
Never got that shallow depth of field, the lens was just f/4.
Couldn’t abide the compression, it was so nasty,
He’d have to look elsewhere for his pocket HD.
Camera that is. Maybe a 7D. Maybe a Scarlet.
Y’all come back Panasonic, y’hear?
Reader Comments (65)
Man you so need to get out more Stu !
:-)
Mike
You are off your rocker. I dont think he needs to get out more, I think he needs more sleep.
Haha nice. Please keep putting pressure on Panasonic. Would firmware update for 24Mpbs+24p (no pulldown) be possible?
I bought one of those crap cameras. I am SOOO disapointed.
The worst part is that on the dutch and UK website the description of the PAL camcorder says it can make all the framerates, 24, 25, 30, 50, 60. But the camera can only do 25 and 60.
I tried to reach panasonic customer service and they were really stupid.
I think the 25p cam is still better than the stupid 24p over 60i at least, as I can convert it to 24p without too much loss (or pain).
The compression makes me cry... One of the worst things I've ever done was buying this piece of s***.....
The Customer Support help me to take the decision to never buy Panasonic again.
Who are u and what have you done with Stu
jason
Maybe its your coffee?
j
Considering the price, I don't see why it's getting hated on so much after all the initial stellar reviews.
This is epic.
LOL, I just did a spit-take all over my keyboard!
Coffee, that is. Black beans, Sugar and Cream.
Cruel to be kind.....
I'm confused. This camera was listed in Stu's needables column for weeks, if not months. I've looked at some beautiful footage on Vimeo which had me excited about the possibility of an upcoming purchase. Is it really that horrible?
Oh c'mon, it's not THAT bad. It's certainly a frustrating cam at times, but you can get very nice results from it under the right conditions. Check out this music vid:
http://www.vimeo.com/6942561
IMO while the compression seriously hobbles it, it's far beyond the 7D in terms of ergonomics and video-friendly features (articulated LCD, great EVF, adaptability to almost any lens mount, etc). They just need to fix the damn AVCHD.
Well I don't like it.
Most of the good footage in vimeo is good quality because they are not using the lenses that come with the camera.
The camera is capable of doing great images, but depending on the lenses used and level of detail and motion of the pictures. Handheld is impossible.
Yesterday I went out to shoot some people going to work in the morning, around 8am. It was a little rainy and cloudy. There wasn't enough light to shoot using 1600 ISO!!! that was with the lens zoom wide open and shutter @ 1/30.
In the other hand, you can buy adapters to put every kind of lens in front of this camera (PL mount, C mount, nikon, canon, etc). This is what makes this camera unique and was one of the main reasons for my choice. Unfortunately, the codec doesn't make it up to the lenses.
The photo part of the camera is great, though.
If you are planning to buy one, talk to me!
My story exactly! I purchased the GH-1 from Panasonic Direct. Thank GOD it was back-ordered. After waiting the extra days for it to get in the shipping cue I saw Phil Bloom's 7D footage of his run-n-gun at Zacuto's HQ. I was amazed with how clean it looked. So much so I called up Panasonic JUST MOMENTS BEFORE THEY WERE ABOUT TO SHIP OUT THE CAMERA and successfully canceled my order. I now have my 7D and am very happy with my purchase.
You wrote this at Midnight, was there scotch involved?
Man, that was hilarious, Stu! My story is similar. Bought the GH1, and 2 days later Canon announced the 7D. After playing with the GH1 for a week I couldn't stomach the sorely lacking codec, so back it went. I have a 7D now and haven't looked back.
lillbirdie,
Ahem...
Balvenie 15 year.
CLASSIC! thanks for letting us know. I'm thinking about a 7d.
Right on the spot Stu, very creative!
Panasonic is so close to making a killer kit but they don't want to for fear of cannibalizing their higher end AVC HD and P2 cameras.
The future looks good since they plan to release an AVCHD HMC 150 like camera with a 4/3 sensor and interchangeable lenses. Well at least that is what the rumors claim!
Things will look quite different in just a year!
The funniest part of all of this is how misinformed people are about the quality that they're really getting. I shoot travel shows for a major cable network, and I started incorporating DSLR footage as b-cam in my shoots. The GH1 passed QC with flying colors, and the 7D was denied because of too much aliasing and moire, and not enough resolution to make HD programming.
Go figure.
I think it's getting unfavorable review not because it is bad as a camcorder, but because of what it could've been as a DSLR(minus R) video camera. DSLR HD camera hybrids have been raising the bar constantly and macroblocks are becoming unacceptable thing for filmmaking, as it should. Panasonic, please see the trajectory of the industry and shoot for future standard, not of the last year.
That's very Funny Stu.
Do you feel this way about the GH1 camera, or is your little ditty a comment on the people who are unable to get good results from it?
Beside myself, the ASC and CSC cinematographers shooting broadcast series and feature films with the GH1 will beg to differ.
I agree with Stu (and John) - I was really set to buy a GH1 for months - sure the articulating LCD and ergonomics are better (though not film/video camera good either). But everything else (codec, pulldown, IQ, noise, wide glass costs etc.) I went with 7D a couple of days ago and am very happy.
That was very funny. Never do it again. :)
Hey Alex Henning's Grandfather wrote the song to the BevHillBillies. :)
Hi Stu,
Simply amazing. A jack of all trades. Well maybe some tools need sharpening. :)
What is your opinion on the Nikon D5000 720p 24fps? 600 buckaroos.
Hi Illya, yes, unfortunately I am using John's experience to describe my own reaction to the camera. I never actually bought one, but I've shot a bit with one, and studied every bit of raw footage I could get my hands on. I found the compression to be unacceptable.
I'm sure folks much smarted and more talented than me can get great results from the GH1, especially through the use of your adapter that allows the use of lenses that cost ten times as much as the camera body. That plus a professional crew to light and pull focus and I'm sure the results are just lovely.
But when I have those kinds of costly resources, I personally question the wisdom of banking it all on a $1500 camera body.
That's just my opinion, not a decision I can make for anyone else.
I hold Panasonic to a higher standard than I do Canon. I'll be a Pany fan for life after the DVX100. They can do better, and somebody needs to give them some tough love. They could so easily mop the floor with the competition if they just tried. So please know that I gripe because I love.
I applaud you for your work with the Hot Rod adapter and would be thrilled if Panasonic made a camera that could really let it shine.
Hi Stu,
I've worked on $2M features that banked major camera angles in stunts on $150 filmo 16mm cameras. I think it just comes down to how comfortable you feel with the tools. The GH1 has it's place no doubt. I'm not telling anyone they should use it instead of an F35 or another camera that maybe more appropriate. The GH1 really shines as a crash camera on big budget shows, I know of at least three working in that capacity today, rigged in all kinds of crazy ways with PL glass. Because the camera is so cheap, it's negligible in the budget to have a GH1 live on the camera truck. The crew can pull it out use the lenses they already have on hand for the other cameras, I've been getting emails about how much "fun" it is to have that option.
On lower budget shows, the GH1 is finding it's place much like cameras like the EX1/EX3 and HVX200/A have found their way to; inserts, special looks, shooting incognito, rigging in small spaces and body/helmet/gun-cams. When I was on Entourage we worked with 3x HVX200s for a scene on Venice beach. All those cheap cameras became A/B/C but only for that scene and it was appropriate for what was being shot.
On really low budget shows is where the GH1 is being elevated to A camera status. I agree, shooting exclusively with the GH1 (or any camera) without knowing what you're getting into is unwise. However, if the user is aware of the pluses and minus I say go for it!
Just yesterday morning I was dropping off equipment at a rental house in Burbank, and someone in the prep bay next to me was taking out lenses and a tripod for a Red camera they owned, they had never (ever) performed a camera prep before, and said they wouldn't do it. I said, "You should probably at least look at the lenses, you can't be in that much of a rush." They said they didn't know how, and they would just ask the DP to do it. Now that is unwise.
You're right Panasonic should be held to a higher standard than Canon, although to be fair to Panasonic the GH1 was marketed and released as a "tourist cam." Panasonic hasn't actively marketed the GH1 to the filmmaking world like Canon with the splendid efforts of Tim Smith and Co. I think that may change in the near future with a new camera from Panasonic- although I've probably already said to much about that.
Brilliant.
I uploaded a short video clip showing the aliasing problems on the Canon 7D in 720p mode to Vimeo and wrote a longwinded rant about all of the video enabled DSLR cameras currently on the market.
The GH1 was the bastard stepchild. My reason for writing the rant was to pressure Canon, Nikon and Panasonic into addressing these issues, but instead people were angry with me for exposing these problems and wanting something better. The Canon apologists all weighed in to defend Canon and attack me. My favorite Canon apologist comments were the ones saying the audience would never care about aliasing all over the screen and they are just not sophisticated enough to notice the difference. If this were to be true then why would people buy huge HD televisions and BlueRay players instead of cheap crappy TV’s and continue collecting DVD’s?
If anyone would like to read my rant and see if this amount of aliasing on the Canon video enabled DSLR’s is acceptable for deep focus shots go here: http://www.vimeo.com/6885596
All comments welcome good or bad.
-Dark Ruby
Indeed, this saddens me (both the GH1 and the 7D Comment/video above). I bought the GH1 after seeing some footage posted online and being perhaps a bit too optimistic. Im not a professional DP, photographer or even videographer. Im a hobbyist and shoot footage rebel style for my own weird art.
That said, I still want quality picture out of the camera for latitude and play, and I have also been a bit miffed about the muddyness of the AVCHD from the GH1. Now, the question is, is this issue Apples AVCHD decoder/transcoder, or the actual footage? It strikes me that playback from the camera on to a TV looks better than footage ingested in to NLEs and played out. I could be crazy, and I'm sure there are some tests done that will prove it one way or another, but it seems that way to me. Anyone care to comment?
Im glad in a way to see the 7D "debunked" somewhat above, as I have been very tempted as of late to sell my GH1 and go for a 7D. The body feels much more solid, but my gripe is no AF during video record and very hard to shoot awkward angles due to lack of flip out LCD.
Of course, geniuses like Stu and others can shoot incredible video with this, as they know the cameras in and out, have their techniques and have done this hundreds of times. I just want a camera thats a bit more forgiving for those of us (ok, me), who are not at that level just yet.
At this point, Im considering selling my GH1 and HV20+DOF adaptor and getting a Scarlet if they are announced within a price point that makes sense for me, as they seem to have the bases covered, but I suspect Scarlet will be so "Pro" it will be unforgiving.
So close, all of these are so close yet so far. Its a shame. Till the Scarlet is announced and shipping, I'll keep shooting on the GH1 and dealing with the mud.
*sigh*
Vade:
NO camera is going to magic fix bad shooting. None. Regardless of codec issues, the HV20 and GH1 are enough for you to shoot and LEARN, the Scarlet, nor any other camera, will save you. I bought a DVX instead of an HVX for my first ever project, because I knew that Hi Def would not SAVE me, but would actually only make my blemishes stand out even MORE. The clearer the codec, the more fine the resolution, the more your flaws will stand out. In a decade of professional digital photography, I have seen novice photog after novice photog by each new successive camera thinking that finally, THIS CAMERA will be the one that gives them good photos. IT IS NOT THE CAMERA. Yes, a good camera makes good footage look better, but it will also only make bad footage look worse. You have some really good LEARNING kit in the HV20 and the GH1. not the BEST choices, but they WORK. Learn to shoot and when your photography is ready, the right camera will be there for you.
Also, while I'm not a fan of Apple, I highly doubt that a ProRes transcode is the problem with your footage. It's a great format, and while it wont make AVCHD footage any BETTER, it wont make it any WORSE.
thats really odd. when i read the original article, i thought it was a tongue in cheek poke at shit film-makers blaming their kit...
was i wrong, is this a lighthearted but accurate review of the camera performance?
Cheers!
I have to say I am also disappointed with the GH1. Not mainly the poor codec/data rate; I can even live with transcoding (btw. Adobe media Encoder CS4 works quiet well & fast); my main problem is the grain and the strange static line noise in darker areas. Panasonic even suggests to use night ode to shoot in dark areas; but thats a guarantee for absolute unusable material. The only way to get acceptable Results is shooting in manual mode with iso 100. The other problem is the lens mechanic; the zoom just slides out when I carry the cam on the belt.....
(btw. sorry for my english...)
chers
cros
Dark Ruby:
Your test is hardly a debunk or good test of the 7D. Yes, aliasing and moire happens but there are lots of ways to avoid it. My test is a much more accurate representation of what occurs in worst case scenario.
http://www.vimeo.com/7214842
Really? The Dark Ruby argument has to be brought over here? Is that really necessary? He provided a link to his discussion.
Stephen v2:
I cannot tell if you making a joke or not.
We all know why the aliasing is happening on the Canon 5DMKII, 7D, Rebel T1i, and 1DMKIV.
There is no solution or post fix.
The only way to avoid the issue is to shoot with the background out of focus, or in your case hold the camera on its side. This is why I keep writing that the Canon's are great close up cameras but too unpredictable to use for unplanned deep focus shots.
For deep focus shots the HMC-150 or HPX-170 would work fine. The $5000 Canon 1DMKIV is proof that Canon will never deal with this issue no matter how much money you throw at them. They just don't care.
I will not buy the $5000 1DMKIV because it has the same aliasing problems that the other Canon video enabled DSLR cameras have.
http://www.vimeo.com/6885596
-Dark Ruby
I responded on his vimeo site. The bottom line is while I chose to buy a 7D, the 7D or GH1 can make nice stuff if you know how to work around their limitations and play to their strengths. For the money, the 7D is amazing still and video image making device and I'm excited to have one.
I really, REALLY, wanted to love the GH1, I spent a day with it on a set last week shooting with a HotRod PL adapter and a Zeiss B-Speed 50mm. It was tantalizing in that I could shoot with that piece of glass in my hand, but resulted in a beautiful image broken up with artifacts and wobble. I know it's asking a lot for a little camera that is designed for many things other than cinema. I'll be posting about four minutes of footage on Vimeo late tonight for perusal, deconstruction and probably flaming.
I just sang the lyrics out loud to myself. I know the whole song as I know the actual Elly May.
http://vimeo.com/7244470
and some clips from my torture-test.
Interesting.. a lot of people here seem to be looking for the fantastic magic bullet - i.e. the camera that'll make them look as good as Phil Bloom! Not everyone, just a theme I feel. I think that a good camera operator can make an HV20 with a 35 adapter shine, and a GH1 would make things that much easier!
BTW, the GH1 can do hand-held fun work, really. And for wide-angle shots and zooms, it's stock lens is sharp sharp sharp.. an adapter for Nikon or Canon lenses is wonderful too - options!
Here's a fun handheld GH1 video ;)
http://vimeo.com/6677685
Enjoy!
I feel another "my gear is better than your gear" pissing contest in the works. I have a GH-1. I love it. I've happy with the editing, the codec, the glass and have had no blockiness or artifacting problems.
Hey Stu,
First off thanks for all you do to empower the rebel!
I found some new D3s footage. Tell me what you thank. It seems to look good and I don't see the aliasing artifacts I see on the 5D. I thank I would have a good 720 frame then a ok 1080 frame... what are your thoughts ?
D3s footage... at the bottom of the page
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/D3S/D3SA7.HTM
Unfortunately, I've been having all the problems Stu mentions... including fixed patern noise in low light.
Not cool. Not cool at all, in fact. it's outright juvenile. Why would you put down any tool for filmmakers across the economic spectra to produce works of fiction and truth. The need for the next big thing is nothing more than pornography. ALL of the shitty films produced in Hollywood are made with the BEST equipment. Let's grow the conversation and speak more about substance and content, rather than the masturbating on the next camera.
M
Panasonic can do better, and should know better. I wrote this post to push Panasonic to give you what I feel you deserve for your $1500.
What if I blog endlessly about how the GH1 could be improved and the next guy blogs endlessly about how freaking awesome the GH1 is. Which blog do you hope Panasonic is reading?
"It is nowhere near perfect but it isn't horse crap wrapped in tin foil either".
It is a $1500 Crap Sandwich.
Panasonic needs to sell the GH1 body for $500 then you will have enough cash left to buy mouthwash.
Why are people still defending the GH1? The GH1 is not a video camera or a professional still camera.
It is a $1500 Crap Sandwich that shoots muddy Jello-Cam video footage, even with it’s Micro 4/3 sensor the pictures are only slightly better than a $200 point and shoot.
At $500 the GH1 body would be a great close up camera for video, but at $1500 with the slow kit lens you will never see the Bokeh that you wanted out of this camera unless you buy a mount adapter and expensive fast glass for a 2x crop camera.
PANASONIC! WHO DID YOU MAKE THIS CAMERA FOR?
I have to agree here. The GH1 sucks beyond believe. The codec is just terrible. No PL lens can save it.
Ha Ha, your one snarky fella!